Emulate OS 10 or OS 11 on Monterey 12.7.6 ?

Angus McC wrote:

It would be even better, though, if I could run the two systems simultaneously (which was the appeal of the emulator idea with which I started this thread). So now what about this? Suppose I got a Mac mini, say, clearly it could run the old OS too, if I plugged the old boot disk into it as an external.

If you were talking about a current or recent Mac mini, it could not run Yosemite or El Capitan.

None of the Apple Silicon (M1, M2, M2 Pro, M4, or M4 Pro) Mac minis can boot an Intel-based version of macOS. It would be as if the OS was written entirely in English and the CPU understood only Japanese.

Macs cannot run a version of macOS earlier than the one that first shipped with their model. That rules out the Mac mini (2018), which first shipped with macOS 10.14 (Mojave). Going by the information in MacTracker, these are the Mac minis that can run some version of Yosemite or El Capitan:

• The Mac mini (Late 2014), which originally shipped with OS X 10.10 (Yosemite), and later shipped with versions of Yosemite and El Capitan (10.10.2, 10.11, 10.11.1, and 10.11.2).
• Any of the Mac minis or Mac mini Servers released in Early 2009, Late 2009, Mid 2010, Late 2011, or Late 2012.

Earlier ones are more limited with regards to their hardware and how far you can upgrade the OS, with those from 2009 not being able even to upgrade past El Capitan.

Mac minis from 2007 or earlier cannot update as far as Yosemite, and those from 2005 are PowerPC-based machines which can't update past Leopard (the last version of Mac OS X that supported PowerPC processors).

Looking on Other World Computing's site, it appears that they do carry some used Late 2012 and Late 2014 Mac minis, but nothing earlier than that. The 2014 Mac mini had soldered-in RAM (4, 8, or 16 GB), and it appears that OWC only has units with 8 GB of RAM, which may not be ideal for Adobe applications. The 2012 model had RAM sockets and could take a maximum of 16 GB of RAM (an option that OWC offers).

https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my-mac/mac-mini

For reference, there are a couple of clone backup utilities that work with Yosemite and El Capitan.

• Carbon Copy Cloner version 5. This is an old version – the download page on the developer site says that while "we will continue to offer technical support for CCC 5, but we are no longer actively developing it, nor testing it against newer OSes."
• SuperDuper! version 3.8. This is also an old version.

Forget the emulator.

As alternative to using an emulator, have you simply considered installing the earlier macOS version(s) with your legacy apps on an external SSD and boot from that whenever you need to? It's a pretty simple setup.

Which macOS 10 version are you interested in?

10.14 Mojave and earlier can run old Mac software of the 32-bit variety.

10.15 Catalina and macOS 11 Big Sur cannot run 32-bit apps but requires all software to be 64-bit coded.

Angus McC wrote:

I don’t have the installation disks for the OS 10, sadly, so I don’t know how I’d install it on an external drive. Unless I misunderstand, an emulator would include the OS 10, up and running and ready for me to install compatible apps. 

You want UTM.

https://mac.getutm.app/

Then you want to search for a Github project called "utmconfigs".

Bigwaff wrote:

Angus McC wrote:

I don’t have the installation disks for the OS 10, sadly, so I don’t know how I’d install it on an external drive. Unless I misunderstand, an emulator would include the OS 10, up and running and ready for me to install compatible apps. 

You want UTM.

https://mac.getutm.app/

Then you want to search for a Github project called "utmconfigs".

Disregard. I didn't realize they had it working for both systems.

Angus McC wrote:

Thanks for your thoughts, D.I.

The apps I’m most interested in running are my Adobe CS3 Suite (Illustrator, Photoshop, Acrobat). So any version of Mac OS 10 or OS 11 should do the job. 

How much memory do these apps require? Using any type of Virtual Machine on your Mac will require a minimum of 8GB for macOS itself on the host plus assigning at least another 8GB for the VM itself. A host system with 16GB of memory is barely able to facilitate such a setup. This is why using an external boot drive for the older OS is best.

While the idea of being able to boot the MacBook into those OS from an external drive makes great sense, two problems:

1. Ideally, I’d like to have both the OS 10.x, say, and the MacBook’s native OS 12.7.7 running simultaneously, so I can exchange data and files between apps on each system in real time, rather than having to save, shut down one OS, then boot up again in the other OS. Hence the appeal of an emulator, where, I imagine, the older OS would appear as a Window in the newer OS.

Understandable. I don't recommend dual booting for those exact reasons. However, 16GB of memory (assuming your laptop even has 16GB of memory) is borderline able to handle a Virtual Machine.

You would be better served by getting a newer Mac to use for every day while keeping this 2015 laptop to run your older software using an older OS (erasing the Monterey OS & installing an older version of macOS compatible with your software).

One problem you may run into is not being able to reinstall & activate the older Adobe software. Many major software vendors tend to turn off their software activation servers, forcing users to upgrade to newer subscription models which also require later versions of macOS. You may want to confirm whether you can even reinstall & activate your older Adobe software as this whole discussion may be moot.

2. I don’t have the installation disks for the OS 10, sadly, so I don’t know how I’d install it on an external drive. Unless I misunderstand, an emulator would include the OS 10, up and running and ready for me to install compatible apps. 

You can create a bootable macOS USB installer using the instructions in the following Apple article:

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

No, having an OS on an external drive won't provide for the simultaneous use of two macOS versions.

To do that you might consider using VM Ware's Fusion virtual environment or something similar, maybe Parallels.

I'm pretty sure, however, that you're going to have to provide an installer for whatever OS it is that you're going to want to install. Apple provides access to installers and has guidance for downloading them here: How to download and install macOS - Apple Support

Of course, these installers may also be used to install macOS on an external drive IF the Mac is qualified to run them. Your mid-2015 MBP can run OS X 10.10 Yosemite to macOS 12 Monterey natively.

I suggest you determine the newest macOS that your old Adobe apps can run under (10.14 Mojave?) and concentrate on using that, whether via VM Ware (I wouldn't) or installed as a boot OS on an external drive.

To be honest, it's probably time to either find newer versions of those Adobe apps that can run in a newer macOS... or find replacements for them. To keep running the old apps will become increasingly difficult as hardware continues to age and fail.

A MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) would have shipped with one of

• OS X 10.10.3 (Yosemite), OS X 10.11 (El Capitain), OS 10.11.1 (El Capitan), or OS X 10.11.2 (El Capitain)

So you should be able to run the latest versions of El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra, or Mojave dual-boot or in a virtual machine, provided that Monterey will let you run the installers.

How to download and install macOS - Apple Support

However, there is another obstacle. You say that you want to do this so that you can keep using your old one-time-purchase versions of Adobe software. Adobe may have shut off the DRM activation servers for your software. In that case, you could set up a dual-boot or virtual machine environment, and still not be able to use your old Adobe programs.

Note: When you say that "any version of OS 11 will do the job" of running CS3, I believe that you are mistaken. 11 is Big Sur and will not run 32-bit software. (El Capitan is 10.11.*)

You'e welcome. (says a small cog in a big machine) 😉

Angus McC wrote:

[...]

How about this though, then, just asking, and forgive me if I'm being stupid, my expertise is nothing like yours or the other kind contributors here: I was able to clone the veteran Mac Pro's boot disk and I have it saved as a dmg disk image. Do you think I could copy that onto a new external SSD and it would work as a boot disk to boot up my MacBook? If so, it might well solve the whole problem because, of course, it had the Adobe CS3 installed on it and running fine when the host computer, the Mac Pro, died....

You're definitely not being stupid here., and that's a good question.

It's been my experience that a clone of a bootable drive on one Mac will likely work on another, especially since the release of Mac OS X. I've used and booted many Macs over the years with the same cloned or installed macOS version on external drives.

You didn't say what app you used to clone the Mac Pro's boot drive, but if you have access to a version of that app on your newer MacBook, then I'd say you have a pretty good chance of success with this idea. It's definitely worth a try and if it works, it works.

I'll add, though, that I've never had any luck restoring a disk image created by Disk Utility, however. Never! And I really can't tell you why.