MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

DougB851 wrote:

Grant I recently purchased a MB Pro 16 M4 with a Max chip. I was under the belief that Thunderbolt 5 was a standard for this configuration. However, the hardware listed on the machine delivered shows all three ports as Thunderbolt 4. Went to Apple Store to look and all of their M4 Max and Pro units also showed Thunderbolt 4.

Have you seen this elsewhere? Has anyone purchased a machine that shows a Thunderbolt 5 in the hardware overview?

Please advise. Thank you.

M4 Pro and M4 Max

• Three Thunderbolt 5 (USB-C) ports with support for:
• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt 5 (up to 120Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

MagSafe 3

Thunderbolt 5

3.5 mm headphone jack

SDXC

Thunderbolt 5

HDMI

source:

MacBook Pro - Tech Specs - Apple

NB> ThunderBolt 5, as I mentioned above, is NO DIFFERENT from earlier versions of Thunderbolt. ThunderBolt-5 can ONLY provide faster speeds when talking to other genuine ThunderBolt-5 devices, of which there are essentially NONE at this writing.

Thank you. And understood about current lack of TB5 accessories. I have pre-order an external TB5 hard drive from OWC.

My disappoint is that there is nowhere in the machine’s hardware overview to see what Thunderbolt ports are installed. Similar to memory or core count. Only place is see is the read speed of 120gbs.

Now that we know it's a TB5 port compatibility issue, does anyone know which portable monitors (other than the one linked by calirap, which is only 16 inches and also unavailable now) actually work unplugged from auxiliary power with TB5? How can we be sure when we're shopping for a new monitor? Any recommendations would be appreciated. If you find one on line, 18" or bigger, please post. Thank you.

Today I tested a newly purchased Arzopa 16" 2.5k portable monitor with the M4 Pro Mac mini (the one with three Thunderbolt 5 ports). I am having the same problem with this monitor as everyone else. If I plug in the supplied USB-C cable between a thunderbolt port and the monitor, it initially turns on but then says there is no signal, and the monitor does not appear in macOS display settings. However, if I connect a second USB-C cable between either the front USB-C ports or the rear TB 5 port and the monitor, then it turns on, presumably getting the power it needs to run. Though to be honest, it runs more reliably when one cable is coming from the HDMI port on the mac into the HDMI port on the monitor and the other is into the USB-C port/TB port (or external power wall outlet (I even successfully tested it with a battery pack)) for power.

Given the monitor works fine when I plug in my iPhone, my iPad, and the Nintendo switch, from USB-C to USB-C without a second cable, I am not sure why the Mac mini cannot supply sufficient power. It does seem to be a bug with TB5 that could be fixed with a software or firmware update from Apple (though I'm not an expert on Thunderbolt/USB to know this with any real confidence).

Given, on reading all the posts in this thread, that the problem seems to relate to power delivery, it seems very odd to me that connecting a usb c display hub in between the thunderbolt 5 port and the monitor fixes the problem. Can you confirm (ToddGeorgeKelly) that there is no other external power being used for this to work....it's simply working by connecting an unpowered hub in between two USB-C cables, one connecting the hub to the Mac and the other end from the hub to the monitor? If this is the case, how is it possible that this unpowered hub seemingly adds the electrical power that is needed to transfer the signal. Or is it fixing the problem another way?

Has anyone had any success with any other hubs like the one suggested, perhaps cheaper and available in the UK?

Thanks everyone.

I came across this:

USB4™ Thunderbolt 3™ Compatibility Requirements Specification – Version 1.0 (February 2021)

This specification pertains to Thunderbolt 3 ports that are also USB4 ports.

It sounds like if a system has a single USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 port, that port must provide 15W of power. When a system has multiple USB4 / Thunderbolt 3 ports, only one out of every four ports has to provide 15W (5V / 3A). From what I see here, it sounds like a M-series MacBook Pro would be standards-compliant if it offered 15W on one of its three USB4 / Thunderbolt ports, and 7.5W (5V / 1.5A) each on the others.

A MBP could offer more power, including power at higher voltages, but that would be optional.

"A USB4 Host may optionally provide 15W or more power on a USB4 Port via explicit PD contract."

I don't know of any Apple Technical Specifications or Support documents that spell out clearly how much power any particular Macintosh is willing to provide on its USB-A, USB-C, USB4, or Thunderbolt ports. You could infer that a USB-A or USB-C port that supports USB 3.0 speed or better must be willing to provide 4.5W (5V @ 0.9A) without Power Delivery negotiation, since that's expected of USB 3 host ports, but good luck in finding that out from Apple's documentation alone, if you had never heard of the USB 3 limits separately.

So we're working somewhat in the dark as to what the "expected" power delivery specifications are for old & new MBPs – and whether the behavior change is, from Apple's standpoint, an unintended change or an intended one.

Do you know of any portable monitors that do work with M4 Pro Macs? I'm still within the return period and considering returning the Arzopa 2.5k 16" monitor, but would like to replace it with one that actually works!!

(It does work, but only with two cables plugged in - HDMI and USBC for power)

So, the least expensive yet featured portable dock that doesn't increase the output cables of MBP and input cables to portable display that worked with my M4 Pro MBP was the one below. It was on sale when I bought it (~$39ish), but it's imperative the dock you get have a USB-C port designated for Video output - it has to say this explicitly, not any USB-C, no matter then Gen, will output video signal. More formally, the USB-C port on dock needs to have DP-Alt mode.

So, I plug the magsafe power cable into the MBP, then I connect the dock to one of the MBP's TB5 ports. Then I connect a 10Gbps or greater USB-C video/data cable from the portable display to the dock's USB-C Video port. Viola! The dock doesn't need a power adapter connected to it, it pulls enough from the MBP. This is similar to ToddGeorgeKelly's comment - having a dock in the middle "solves" the problem. But this works well for me, no issues.

So that's still one cable into the monitor and one from the MBP, if you consider the dock block a "cable". You can also use the dock's PD input for power; there is a Magsafe -> USB-C adapter in the wild, but I won't vet that.

Not as clean as a single, continuous cable from MBP to display, but still effectively one "cable" if you consider the dock part of the cable, and seeing that only one port is used on both the monitor and the MBP.

The dock (~$50): Inateck HDMI Docking Station 4K 60Hz, USB C Video+Data, 100W PD,10 in 1 USB 3.2 Type C Hub, 2 USB 3.0 A, RJ45 Ethernet, 1.6ft Cable, for Windows 7/10/11, Linux, MacOS 10.2, HB2030

The portable display (doesn't exist on Amazon anymore as a link, but it was only last year so maybe it changed name): CNBANAN 2K Portable Monitor, 14" Portable Screen IPS 2140x1440 QHD USB-C&HDMI 100% Adobe RGB Laptop Monitor Extender 1500:1 FreeSync Ultra Slim Extern

But, this is still not optimal, but a sensible work around if you don't want to buy another monitor.

Oddly enough, this monitor below worked when connected directly to my M4 Pro MBP, and it's older than the one I mentioned above, but it's too dim and the aspect ratio doesn't match my MBP. No clue why. Maybe required less power, who knows: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BB5T7FV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have an Espresso Portable Monitor and it was working great with my M1 MacBook. I upgraded to the M4 Pro last week and it would not work at all for me. I really needed a 2nd display for work, so I decide to just upload my newest Time Machine back up onto my old M1 MacBook untill I could find a solution. The portable monitor was working on it until I had to install the new Sequoia 15.2 update on the old M1 since that's what my latest back up was, and now not even my M1 MacBook can detect the monitor.

I was thinking it was something like you mentioned above too till that happened today... Hopefully there is some type of patch in the coming updates of Sequoia because so far it's making my life miserable.

It's not just you. I just paid a lot of money for a M4 max pro. One primary purpose of this is to use a 18.5 inch portable monitor I used perfectly fine with an M2 Pro. I was very frustrated and started searching for answers and found these posts. I still find no answer nor good recommendation in the 18.5 screen size that will work with an M4 with Thunderbolt 5 even though Thunderbolt 5 is supposed to be backward compatible. For me, Thunderbolt 5 is nearly worthless. I bought this mac for the processor and the stated specs that it was capable with display port and power over that port. I find it absolutely ridiculous to spend this kind of money on a Macbook that requires a two cable solution while earlier Macs do not. I am considering returning the Mac. Too much money for not living up to its specs. I do not feel as if I'm getting my money's worth nor did I get what I paid for. One thing does surprise me though. My MNN 15.6 I bought from Amazon that I've run in a dual monitor setup on the M2, does work on the M4 Max Pro.

gamer_jack wrote:

I bought this mac for the processor and the stated specs that it was capable with display port and power over that port.

Please provide a link to the Technical Specifications which state that the M4 Max MacBook Pro will provide large amounts of power – in excess of the minimums for USB or Thunderbolt ports – to an accessory. I am looking at the stated specifications, and I see nothing to that effect there.

MacBook Pro (14-inch, M4 Pro or M4 Max, 2024) - Tech Specs - Apple Support

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2024) - Tech Specs - Apple Support

----------

Three Thunderbolt 5 (USB-C) ports with support for:

• Charging
• DisplayPort
• Thunderbolt 5 (up to 120Gb/s)
• Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40Gb/s)
• USB 4 (up to 40Gb/s)

----------

Charging means charging the Mac.

Charge your MacBook Air or MacBook Pro - Apple Support

Hello All,

I have been having the same issue with my Amazon Chinese 15inch portable monitor. HOWEVER, my father has a Viewsonic VA1655, and it worked perfectly with a SINGLE Usb-c cable for power and data. It is likely only a problem with the negotiation on software on off-brand monitors. Apple may have tightened their protocol adherence.

Yes, some work, some don't.

Tried two. An Innoview 18" (very nice, btw) potable does NOT work with Mini M4 Pro, yet works with M3 Macs, and probably M4 Macs without TB5. However, A UPerfect 16" DOES work with TB5, so there's that, go-figure

Fix for Innoview is to use HDMI and then a USB-C cable from the front of the Mini to power it. Hopefully, this is a temporary fix, as there's something amiss with TB5 presently.

So everyone, don't even bother except to let Apple know, so they can hopefully patch this. It's pretty clear cut at this point. I'm using Apple's TB4 cables, which are enough, so....

note: Also tried a TB5 cable I had, doesn't work either, which was expected.

Thanks for the update. You mentioned that the UPerfect 16" does work.

There are 4-5 UPerfect 16" portable displays for sale on Amazon -- all at different price points.

Can you identify which model you bought by providing the model number?

Thanks.

Really tricky this. They switch things around so much, to get a direct hit on the exact model would be a miracle considering I bought this used off Ebay a couple years ago. It's 16" UPERFECT 2K QHD Portable Monitor HDMI Type C 500Nits,

Now they sell a LOT of these but nothing remains the same. The one they sell now I see (also rebranding everywhere), looks different. Also, They are grossly inconsistent, and questionable. I liked the one I initially bought so I bought another one of the exact same listing on Ebay. It wasn't nearly as bright (more like 300nits). I recently tried a UPerfect 15.6" 600nits off Amazon, and it was maybe 400nits if that. I returned that. So good luck.

I would go bigger anyway. This is by far the best value in portables now. A 17.3" to 23" would have cost you $500 at least, just a couple years ago. Now they are dirt cheap. My Innoview 500 nit matte, 18" is a really good monitor. It works with the M4 Pro, just use a HDMI cable and another USB-C, as there're plenty of ports on the Mini. It's not ideal, but advisable. To think they sell these now for around $200 is mind boggling. Competition can be so useful. The Uperfect I said the same thing two years ago. Now they have the larger 4k ones, (2k is enough).