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User profile for user: ddow77
ddow77 Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Do "Earlier Operating System" Macs have limitations re access or connection quality to the Internet?

Is there anything about the current Internet / WWW that would affect access to (or connection quality re) webpages when using Earlier Mac Operating Systems (i.e., Catalina) and/or browser versions that are out-of-date (but still perform well) and can't be updated because of hardware limitations?


Wouldn't any such limitations be evident from one or more of the hardware diagnostics that the Apple Store runs when one brings devices to the Genius Bar?


The issue: I'm trying to track down major Internet connection issues that began about 3 weeks ago. ISP thinks the problem is age of computer and/or inability to update to modern browser versions. But I had not experienced any problems until the beginning of the month. Apple Store found no issues with my MacBook Pro and the Internet ran without the problems I have at home while at the Apple Store.


Thanks.


Posted on Oct 31, 2024 12:53 PM

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13 replies
User profile for user: Servant of Cats
Servant of Cats
User level: Level 6
17,566 points

Nov 6, 2024 10:06 PM in response to g_wolfman

g_wolfman wrote:

Catalina can still run most major browser families. Including the current Extended Support Release of Firefox


I believe that Catalina can run the current version of Firefox.


The last version of Firefox for Sierra, High Sierra, and Mojave is Firefox 115 ESR. Mozilla was originally planning to discontinue "critical security updates" for it in September or October – but now they have given it a small reprieve, and the page says that these updates will be available through at least March 2025.


There is an ancient version of Firefox (Firefox ESR 78) that runs on El Capitan, but it hasn't gotten security updates in more than three years.

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User profile for user: g_wolfman
g_wolfman
User level: Level 4
2,134 points

Oct 31, 2024 8:04 PM in response to ddow77

If the browser in question is Safari, then the very short answer is yes you will see issues connecting to websites. Because Safari is bundled with the OS and subject to the same limitations as the OS - eventually Apple stops updating it and the rest of the Internet moves on. I expect at the Apple Store they were either running diagnostics, or browsing to a limited number of sites - either Apple sites and/or ones intended to test web standards compliance.


At that point you are best off switching to another browser. The older the OS the more limitations you have there as well, but Catalina can still run most major browser families. Including the current Extended Support Release of Firefox, which I personally like (but Catalina will also run the current version of Opera, TOR Browser, most of the Chromium-based browsers like Brave...the Mozilla derivatives like Waterfox...).


It isn't a case of the sky's the limit - but it's pretty close.

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User profile for user: ddow77
ddow77 Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Nov 1, 2024 2:35 PM in response to g_wolfman

Thanks… Just to clarify: The internet use at the Apple Store was mine. Since I had limited time after the Genius Bar visit (where my MacBook Pro was run through Apple's diagnostics and nothing wrong with it was found) I came back the next day and used the Internet again, this time for over an hour without experiencing the issues I've had at home. 


Those issues, which at times make use of the Internet impossible, started very suddenly and were with a Beta version of Brave I had used for more than two years (with the same ISP) without any problem. Since they began I have alternated with the Catalina version of Safari. The same issues occur. 


The ISP maintains that it has checked everything on its end and has concluded that the problem is with my MacBook Pro and/or my use of it (e.g., having too many tabs open, etc.). However, most (maybe all) of the error messages or screens I get refer specifically to 'connection' problems (e.g., "No internet connection"). Speedtest.net often doesn't complete and returns error messages such as "Download test error"… "Latency test error"… etc.  


Having done everything I can to get the computer checked out by Apple, and with the ISP maintaining my problems are nonetheless with the computer and not with the Internet service it provides, I'm now in a situation where an ISP is effectively telling me my computer is too old to manage current Internet demands and I need to upgrade -- without any direct evidence that that is the case.


I'm not aware of any information that confirms that an old computer that continues to run other applications without any problems can be obsolete for connecting to the Internet. Moreover, sometimes performance returns to normal, which I would not expect to be the case if the problems were with my computer (i.e., it would consistently provide degraded performance, presumably getting progressively worse).



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User profile for user: g_wolfman
g_wolfman
User level: Level 4
2,134 points

Nov 1, 2024 3:33 PM in response to ddow77

Well, you could try restarting your computer in Safe Mode, which prevents any installed login items and third-party agents/daemons from loading, as well as web extensions.


If you have no issues in that case, then the problem could well be something else installed on your computer - a web extension, or something like that. And the intermittent nature could be related to cached information, so it goes away when the cache expires and then comes back.


In any case, the issue is unlikely the ISP - they are right about that. All the ISP really provides you is access to the Internet. ISP problems would be experienced by everything that connects.

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User profile for user: MartinR
MartinR
User level: Level 7
21,709 points

Nov 2, 2024 6:20 AM in response to ddow77

ddow77 wrote:
... I came back the next day <to the Apple Store> and used the Internet again, this time for over an hour without experiencing the issues I've had at home. 

However, most (maybe all) of the error messages or screens I get refer specifically to 'connection' problems (e.g., "No internet connection"). Speedtest.net often doesn't complete and returns error messages such as "Download test error"… "Latency test error"… etc.  

If your Mac can access the internet just fine at the Apple Store (and presumably other places outside your home) but not in your home, I am led to suspect something in the network at your home.


My first suggestion is to reboot your router because many times connection issues are fixed just by doing a reboot (turn it off; wait a minute; turn it back on).


It will help a lot if you provide specific details about your situation ... the exact model Mac, version of macOS, browser versions, router, etc. Also, are you using WiFi or a wired connection at home. What network equipment do you have at home - presumably a router from your ISP but are there any additional devices such as an ethernet switch or other WiFi access points - if so what are they. And, BTW, who is your ISP and what is the ISP connection ... fiber, satellite, copper ...?


While it is "possible" there may be a browser problem it is unlikely. Even Safari on Catalina should be fine with the exception of certain banks/financial institutions. But just to check things you might install Firefox and see if there is any difference there.


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User profile for user: ddow77
ddow77 Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Nov 4, 2024 11:35 AM in response to MartinR

Hi MartinR, I had been running a Beta version of Brave for well over a year without any issues and was not having much better luck with Safari. Therefore I did not think what I was experiencing was a browser issue.


But having ditched both of those and downloaded the last usable release version of Brave that's compatible with Catalina (the last OS I can use on my old MacBook Pro), I have so far not been having a recurrence of any of those problems. 


Just to respond to your inquiries:

I don't have a home network, just a laptop. And the router had been rebooted many times, without any benefit. Same with the modem. No problems with it either.

Also, no difference in performance between wireless and wired.

ISP is Spectrum. I had never had any major issues with it, but its field team (including managers) refused to review the many screenshots I'd taken that appeared to implicate the ISP, so I'm switching now.


I don't know what can go wrong with a browser, but so far so good with the mentioned 'release' version replacement. It therefore does appear that the Brave Beta version had somehow gone awry. I don't know why Safari didn't perform significantly better. I was running it alongside the Brave Beta for comparison, so maybe it was affected in some way by the glitches caused by Brave Beta.


Appreciated your reply.


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User profile for user: ddow77
ddow77 Author
User level: Level 1
16 points

Nov 4, 2024 11:39 AM in response to g_wolfman

Thanks g_wolfman, I seem to have figured this out without being able to determine exactly what went wrong.


The problem does seem to have been with the browser, something I've never run into before.

I assumed it was with the ISP primarily because of all the error messages indicating 'connection' problems.

Also, I did not have much better luck with Safari either, another reason I did not suspect it being a browser issue.


More in my reply to MartinR.


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User profile for user: MartinR
MartinR
User level: Level 7
21,709 points

Nov 7, 2024 12:55 PM in response to ddow77

ddow77 wrote:
If so and one's Mac can run Catalina is there still the question of whether the Mac hardware can run the current version of Firefox (or not)?

If your Mac can run Catalina it can run the current version of Firefox (121.x). Hardware is not an issue here.


And, given Firefox support history, it should continue to be supported & updated on Catalina for at least the next 2-3 years. Maybe more.


Just to give you an idea about this ... even my old 2012 MacBookPro running High Sierra 10.13.6 is running the still supported Firefox ESR 115.x release.


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User profile for user: g_wolfman
g_wolfman
User level: Level 4
2,134 points

Nov 7, 2024 2:58 PM in response to ddow77

Went to my own Catalina system to check what I have - which is the latest Firefox version (132.0.1). The latest ESR version is 128.4.0. What should happen when Firefox drops support for Catalina at some point is that either 128.x becomes the Catalina ESR version, or the next version that is current when they drop support will become the ESR version (like a 130X.Y version).


Either way, Firefox support for Catalina will continue for a number of years still.

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User profile for user: MartinR
MartinR
User level: Level 7
21,709 points

Nov 7, 2024 5:56 PM in response to g_wolfman

Yeah, you're right. The current version is 132.0.1. I must have found an old support page when I looked it earlier. I have 132.0.1 on Monterey.


Where did you find the ESR 128.4.0 number? The latest ESR release I can find is 115.7.0 dated 29-Oct-2024.


Regarding future, whatever is the release number when Firefox for Catalina goes into ESR status will be the number. No way to project it at this point.

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Do "Earlier Operating System" Macs have limitations re access or connection quality to the Internet?

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